Freedom from Ego Dramas, Part 2

July 14, 2014 Divine Love Talk

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Guest: Vanessa, Phone in from Ken Scott.

Topics: Kim’s book, Freedom from Ego Dramas

Parthenia:(For the first few sentences Parthenia was muted.)  All of the addictions that are out there that, once the young people get addicted to them; they’re going to bring that into the home and it’s going to affect everybody’s equilibrium in the home.  So, what could you offer a parent, in terms of trying to understand: Where do we draw the line?

Kim Michaels:  Well, the first thing I would say is that in a relationship like a family, you can’t just consider the freewill of the child; you, also, have to consider the freewill of the parent.


Kim Michaels:  And you are, as a parent, you are the adult — hopefully, we are — and I think you have a right to say: In my home there are certain things I will accept and there are certain things I won’t accept.


Kim Michaels:  The other thing I would say off the bat is that when you’re talking about addictions, there is nothing that takes away the free will of a person more than an addiction.


Kim Michaels:  Because, you don’t have your free will anymore, once you are addicted to something, whatever it is.  It could be online gaming.  It doesn’t matter what it is.  As long as there is something you can’t control, you have lost your free will.  And so, you can’t really come and say that if your parents won’t allow you to give your free will away, then they’re interfering with your free will.  


Kim Michaels:  It doesn’t make sense, does it?

Parthenia:Well, I agree with you.  And sometimes you need to have a third person there with a perspective that — Because, as parents, we get too close to the picture and it’s very easy for that line to get blurred, in terms of am I interfering with the free will of my teenager; or the young adult who is living in my home and, maybe, is going to college, but they’re still dependent on the parent financially.  So, I don’t think it’s so much the age of the child, as if you’re financially dependent on the parent, then you’re still sort of in the position of a child.  Does that make sense?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah, it does.  And you know I can’t give a clear-cut answer that would apply to everybody.


Kim Michaels:  But, what I can say is that when I was child and as I was growing up, and even when I became a teenager, I always had the attitude that I was a guest in my parent’s home.

Parthenia:Ah! OK.

Kim Michaels:  And I even had the attitude, if I go deeper — which I couldn’t have formulated at the time, but I can see this now.  I had the attitude that my parents are not MY parents.  I don’t have ownership of them.  And the reverse of that was that I’m not THEIR child.  They don’t have ownership of me.  But, nevertheless, because I’m living in their home, I behave as a guest.  I don’t behave as if I own the place.

Parthenia:I love that.  You know Kahlil Gibran, in his book, The Prophet, he says your children are not your children.  That they are the sons and daughters of life’s longing for itself.  They come to you -

Kim Michaels:  Through you, but not from you.

Parthenia:Yeah.  And so, I always believed that.  But, I love that concept that you just presented of I am a guest.  And you know, I wonder if it had — because you and I are the same generation — I wonder if this had something to do with our generation, because I certainly felt the same way.  And we just did not disrespect our parents in their home.  And they constantly reminded us.  Ok, you know, this is my house and if you don’t like it, you can leave.  And so, it’s sort of this understood rule.  But today’s generation of children, who are young people; they don’t behave as guests in anybody’s house.  They will pretty much, with American kids, they’ll come in and just take over.  But, Vanessa’s here and she’s a young college student living at home.  How did that strike you about being a guest in your parent’s home?

Vanessa:Well, I was a little surprised when he said that.  You know, we are kind of irreverent.

Parthenia:You have that sense of entitlement, right?

Vanessa:Yeah.  Like the terrible twos, extended all the way until you’re thirty or twenty-five or something.  Yeah.  I definitely relate.  That’s something — I can definitely change my perspective, because she doesn’t own me and I don’t own her?

(They continue along this line for a couple minutes.)

Parthenia:So, I thank you so much for that perspective.  Now, in terms of personal dramas and the world stage of the epic dramas; I know that in the book you talk about developing discernment.  The Christ discernment, which I think it’s referring to that sense of oneness that we’re all connected to everything, to God, to source, to everybody else.  Is that correct?  The Christ discernment, could you talk about that a little bit?

Kim Michaels:  Right.  One aspect of Christ discernment is certainly that you feel that there is something beyond your own mind and your own ego.  There is, first of all, there’s something higher than yourself, which is your higher self, your spiritual self.  And beyond that, ascended masters and God.  And this gives you a sense of perspective on life, where you realize that there is a different way to look at things than the way you look at it from inside your mental box.  And you talked earlier about free will and I said you give away your free will when you go into and addictions; but you can actually be addicted to the ego’s view of life, where you are seeing yourself as the center of the universe.  That can become an addiction that takes away your free will, because it takes away your perspective.  See, free will doesn’t actually mean you can do anything you absolutely want at any time.


Kim Michaels:  Because you can’t exercise your free will if you can’t see all of your options.  And that’s precisely what the ego does.  It limits the options you can see.  And then your will not as free if you have a thousand options and you can only see two and half.

Parthenia:Right.  OK.  That makes perfect sense.  Vanessa, how did that strike you?

Vanessa:Well, I definitely agree with the fact that your ego does limit your view of the world.

Parthenia:Yeah.  There was a quote in the book that says that only a drama makes it seem necessary to resist anything, including the dramas of other people.  What do you think about that concept?  Only a drama makes it seem necessary to resist anything, including the dramas of other people.  Vanessa, what is that?  How does that strike you?

Vanessa:Well, I think — you know how we’re identified with the ego, we think that that’s who you are.  You think you are those dramas.  


Vanessa:I know that I tend to attract dramas where I’m identified with, maybe, being a victim.

Parthenia:Sure.  We were talking about the approval junkie.

Vanessa:And just constantly having to feel like: Oh, well, if I don’t get that approval; then oh my God, then something terrible is happening.  Just that whole thing playing itself out.  And I think that can be addicting; because you don’t really have to take responsibility for yourself, if you’re - 

Parthenia:Caught up in your personal drama.


Parthenia:The other part of that quote, Kim, is: “If you have no drama, you are not attached to any circumstance you encounter.  And you do not use it as an excuse for not letting your light shine.  When you are focused on letting your light shine, you have no attention left over for resisting.  You are untouched by the dramas of others.  You are simply being the sun of God, who is radiating your light independently of other people or material circumstances.”  Now, I know I would certainly like to be in that place.


Parthenia:And that’s a long stretch, but I really think that’s an admirable goal.  But, the more that I study your work, Kim, it does make me feel that this a reachable goal, that it is doable.

Kim Michaels:  And it is.

Parthenia:And it’s work.  But, at the same time, I’m getting this whole thing about I‘ve gotta really focus on not reacting.  Ok.  Now, after commercial break, we’ll be back with more of Kim Michael’s book, Freedom from Ego Dramas.  And we’ll be taking some calls later on in the show.  Thank you for joining us.  You’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.


Parthenia:OK.  We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk, continuing our discussion on freedom from ego dramas.  And, Kim, I’d like to open up with another quote from your book, where Christ was saying — he’s talking about the teachability.  And, as a parent, I think we tend to probably try to teach everywhere.  And there is this level of discernment that we need to develop about who is teachable and who is not.  And I love this quote that says: “Those who continue to project and reject, have set themselves outside of my circle of oneness and they are unteachable to me.  I am here to help those who are willing to transcend their dramas.  I am not here to validate anyone’s drama.”  I thought that was really clear and to the point.  And people do have a tendency to project their dramas and their stuff onto you and they will reject anything that is different from their mental box, whatever their world view, or whatever they’ve been programmed to believe. …  But do you have any further insight you could share with us on teachability?  Because I know we tend to pound sand into a dry hole.

Kim Michaels:  Well, the difficulty in a family situation is that you can’t get away from your children very easily, and your parents, as well.  And so, this is where I think, if you are a spiritual person — And I’m not saying that this was easy for me as a parent, either; because it hasn’t been easy for me as a parent.  I haven’t had what I thought was easy children at all.  

Parthenia:I don’t, either.  (Laughter.)

Kim Michaels:  That’s, of course, because of my psychology.  But, what I think, as a spiritual person, you can say is that: “I must have chosen these children or these parents before I came into embodiment.  And why would I do this, unless I wanted to force myself to learn a certain lesson?  Because, I’m not stupid and I knew that I have a tendency to skip this lesson.  I want to avoid this lesson, because it’s hard.  And so I chose that parent or that child, because that’s the person that’s most suited to helping me or forcing me to confront this lesson I need to learn.


Kim Michaels:  And I think that’s the only viable way to look at it, really.  Because this gets you out of the victim consciousness that we go into.  Because when we go into reacting to other people’s dramas, we are thinking: “Oh I can’t change the other person.  I’ve tried everything.  I’ve told them this.  I’ve told them that.  I’ve exposed everything they do wrong.  And they won’t listen to me.”


Kim Michaels:  And so, the only thing you have left is to say: OK, if I can’t change the other person, then I have to change myself.


Kim Michaels:  And, if I want to get out of this reactionary pattern that I’m in, I have to change myself.  And if I can get to the point where I am no longer reacting to the other person; then even if the other person hasn’t changed, it won’t bother me so much anymore.  It might not bother me at all.  And then, does it really matter whether I live with them or not?  If they are only my children or my parents, I’m not going to live with them for the rest of my life.  It’s only going to be for a few years.  I can deal with that when I know there is a way out.  And I’m now empowered, because now I can change myself.  I don’t need to change the other person.  I just need to change myself.

(Parthenia and Vanessa discuss this.)


Parthenia:OK.  We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, and we’re continuing our discussion about personally liberating yourself from ego dramas as we interview Kim Michaels about his trilogy of books on the ego and the third one is Freedom from Ego Dramas.  We were talking during commercial break about how amazingly liberating this material has been for both of us and you had something to share with Kim.

Vanessa:Yeah, well, after the last show that we had, I had this revelation where I realized that I don’t think that I came to this planet or was put on this planet to get everyone to love me or to like me.  So, it helps because it’s a weight off of my shoulders.  So, I don’t feel like I have to be on all the time.  If I can just -

Parthenia:be yourself.

Vanessa:Yeah.  And if someone is projecting something on to me, I just have to remember that that’s not my stuff.  That’s their stuff.  They can react any way that they want, just like Kim said.  So it’s alright.

Parthenia:So, Kim, I wanted you to know that the book really is helping a lot of people.  Honestly, just reading the book allows you to shift as you’re reading it.  And getting all of these ah-has are just truly incredible.  We have a caller that has a question.  Do we have the caller?

Ken: Yes, you do.

Parthenia:OK.  Can you give us your name?

Ken: Ken Scott.

Parthenia:OK.  And, Ken, what is your question?

Ken: Well, my question has to do — I mean I’ve read the Freedom from Ego Dramas.  Wonderful book.  And the question that came up, not only for myself, but for others out there, is when you’re meditating or you’re doing the invocations and you actually have a healing opportunity, a healing moment, and something shifts.  I’d be very much interested in Kim’s experience as to what he feels in his body or his chest or his heart or his mind that actually lets him know that something is moving in the right direction.

Parthenia:OK. Kim.

Kim Michaels:  Well, for me it’s usually a sense of, it starts with a sense of: I see something.  You’re reading something or it can even be during a daily activity.  All of a sudden you have this insight, this ah-ha moment.  “Oh, now I see what I’ve been doing.”  But, that isn’t always the release.  So, what I really look for is that — it’s almost like a (? Transmission garbled a word.) moment where you look at a pattern you’ve been into and all of a sudden you just feel something in you that just lets go and you know that it doesn’t have any hold on you anymore; because you’re just not invested in it.  It doesn’t matter to you anymore.  And, to me, that moment of release is the greatest sign that something has happened.

Parthenia:I certainly experience that quite a few times.  Ken, did that resonate with you?

Ken: Oh, yes, it did!  ‘Cause I get the ah-ha moments, which I would judge to be a kind of a mental body function; but I also have things happening that I would guess are in my emotional body field or my physical body field and things move there, too.  And sometimes I get tired and have to go to sleep.

Parthenia:Yeah.  And process it, right?


Parthenia:Kim, do you recommend that?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah, yeah.  Often when things come up, I would say that you haven’t quite gotten to the release, yet, when you go to sleep.  But it’s fine to go to sleep, if that’ what you feel like.  Because you are then processing.  And maybe you are not quite ready to process it consciously.  You need some sub-conscious processing.  And so, it’s ok to do that.

Parthenia:Vanessa, you had an insight?

Vanessa:Yep.  It’s true!  I’ll know I’m not seeing things right and as soon as I take a nap and I wake up, I’m like: OK. I’ve got it. (Laughter.) So, it definitely resonates with me.

Parthenia:You need that time.  Ken, did that resonate with you?

Ken: Yes, it did.  I guess the other insight or general insight I had in reading the book and as I look at movies and TV programs and sitcoms and those things, it’s pretty obvious that the life here on the physical plane is a constant series of ego dramas.

Parthenia:And epic dramas.  Right?

Ken: Well, yeah, they’re everywhere.  I mean it’s like we’re drowning in this ocean of all these dramas.

Parthenia:And I think it does help — I know, certainly for me, as I’m listening to the news.  And Vanessa, you and I were talking last week on the show about even the movies that we’re watching.


Parthenia:We’re seeing it through a whole other filter that — Kim, it’s allowing me to become more of an observer, now, of the world around me; versus reacting to the world around me.  Vanessa, you had a comment.

Vanessa:Yeah.  You kind of see how dramas are outplayed, like shows like Game of Thrones.

Parthenia:Ohhhhhhhhh.  Yes.  (Laughter.)

Vanessa:So-o-o-o.  Every character is an archetype for the ego.

Parthenia:Yes.  So, Kim, I think that –

Kim Michaels:  Well, I think that’s an important principle, actually you are bringing up there.  Because when we are still blinded by the ego dramas, we just can’t see it.  We can’t see what we’re doing.  We are completely sucked into this spiral of reacting to what other people are doing.  And they, of course, are reacting to us.  And then, it builds this spiral between two people until they can no longer get out of it.  And the moment you can step back and kind of observe it from the outside; that’s when you’ve started freeing yourself from it.

Parthenia:Yeah.  And that’s where I think your books are so helpful, Kim, because now I have this huge frame work in which to see all of my personal dramas and all of the epic dramas that are going on around me.  And it really is helping me become less reactive.  Now, I’m not saying that the tests aren’t getting more difficult as I go along, because I notice that they’re getting more sophisticated.  But, because I am more cognizant of the fact that it is a game, and there are a lot of traps, and that there are also tests every step of the way; I can step back now and as I’m starting to get pulled into a drama, then I can go: “OK.  It’s just a drama.  What is it the test here?  And what do I need to do to pass the test?”  And your books have given me all of these tools that help me instantly when I get pulled into a drama.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  And that really is what needs to happen.  I often times have this looking at a situation and what comes to me is: “Why am I doing this?”



Kim Michaels:  And as long as you can ask that question, you know then you have started separating yourself from it.  Now, you can see it from the outside.  You can see: “Oh.  Maybe I don’t HAVE to do this.  Maybe I’m actually choosing to do this, because I haven’t become aware of why and what kind of a pattern I have in myself.  Like Vanessa was talking about, she has a need for approval; so, she also goes around actually judging herself all the time saying: “I HAVE to be on my best behavior.  I have to always be worthy of people’s approval.”  And it becomes such a strain that you can’t really stand it after a while.  And we all do this with the dramas.  They strain us almost to the breaking point.  And sometimes we have to break before we can step back and say: “Oh, I don’t need to do this.”

Parthenia:Um-hum.  Well, Ken, are you still there?

Ken: Yes.  And I have another question, if I could.


Ken: You discuss the I Am Presence and also the Conscious You, which I refer to as the Conscious Me.  And I would be interested in your process of feeling, physically or emotionally, the contrast or the opening, that moment when all of a sudden you were able to have an awareness of your I Am Presence and your Conscious You that were — and there was a contrast between the two.  All of sudden, you got it and you could feel both sides of yourself?

Parthenia:Well, Kim, can you first tell us the difference between the I Am Presence and the Conscious You?

Kim Michaels:  Well, the I Am Presence is the spiritual self that resides in a higher realm.  The Conscious You is what is down here in embodiment.  And I would say that, what I’ve experienced is that the Conscious You really needs to — and the reason we use that term “the Conscious You” — that doesn’t mean the Conscious You is always conscious of itself, but it needs to become more conscious.  And when you become conscious; — “Why am I doing this?  I don’t have to be doing this.”  — that’s when you have options.  You can begin to make choices and say this is not who I am.  And really what happens is that when you can do that, when you can come to this point where you’re not sucked into some kind of reactionary pattern, that’s when you can experience your I Am Presence.  And I have several times had the experience where if I’m in a difficult situation, I will sometimes lie down on the bed, for example, and just relax.  And then I’ll ask myself — not what should I do about the situation, but I will ask: “How do you look at this situation?”


Kim Michaels:  And many times I have almost been taken out of my body and my outer mind and it’s like I’m up there looking down at my situation and there is no judgment, there is no condemnation from the I Am Presence.  It’s just you see that there is so much more than what you can see from down here.  And once you experience that, it’s like you snap out of this identification with the problem.  You realize this is not who I am!

Parthenia:OK.  And then, it makes it all a bit more bearable, because I’ve had those rare moments, where I could truly observe from that higher perspective.  And it’s just, Wow.  It’s so indescribable.  And you just want to get back there and have that the entire time that you are here on earth, because this is really a treacherous place and trying to stay connected to the I AM and trying to stay conscious and that’s some work.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  And you don’t have to do that all the time.  But, if you have never experienced it that you don’t even have a frame of reference that’s it’s possible to get out of the ego and the way the ego looks at life.  But, once you have experienced it, you have that, as you said, that frame of reference.  And it’s just invaluable to have that.

Parthenia:Vanessa, what were you going to say?

Vanessa:Well, I’ve had those moments, also, where I’ve literally had to step back and say: “What’s going on here?  What am I not seeing?”  And maybe I had to take a nap or something to wake up and it comes to me.  Or maybe a few days later like in the form of a book or something.  But, I’ve also noticed that I’ll get to a point where everything is so clear.  And then, I’ll step outside, right back into my dramas and then, oh, it gets foggier and foggier and foggier.

Parthenia:The longer you stay in the drama. Yeah.  

Vanessa:So, you kind of have to do some cleaning house.

Parthenia:Yeah.  And that’s what I think the tools in transcendence toolbox are about.  Ken, how is this material helping you in your own personal dramas?

Ken: Oh, well, it’s helping me see them.  Whereas, in the past I would have to say I was absolutely conditioned by the physical national paradigm and the TV and all the rest that stuff as seeing that and feeling it as normal.  And now, I look at it and I’m starting to shake my head and see the stuff for the craziness that it is.

(Parthenia agrees and elaborates.)

Parthenia:Ken, before we wrap this segment up, did you have a final question?  Or comment?

Ken: Well, the dark forces appear to me to have done a very good job with conditioning us all and the cultural paradigm.  I suspect no matter what country you are on the world, the process of differentiating that; which Kim’s books are just excellent.  And I’m very grateful, because even the way it’s written; there are times, Kim, I have to just stop and digest the sentence or the paragraph, because it has an energy that moves me.



Parthenia:Alright.  We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant.  And I’m so privileged to have my co-host Kim Michaels continuing the discussion with us about his book, Freedom from Ego Dramas.  Vanessa and I were just talking during commercial break about how liberating this material is in terms of shifting our perspective of how we’re looking at epic dramas that are unfolding in the media.  So, Vanessa, I’d like for you to share how it’s helped you.

Vanessa:Well, I think before I could kind of see how crazy and dramatic people were on the news and it would make me really angry.  I would literally get into it: “I can’t believe people are doing this.”  So, it really made me realize: “OK.  I’m getting angry at all this stuff.  Now, that’s MY drama reacting to all of this that’s going on.  Maybe I should just dial it back and see that that’s their stuff and that’s what’s going on out there; but it doesn’t have to affect me.”  And even with the whole illuminati thing, I really got over obsessive about that at one point.  It made me really depressed and -


Vanessa:Yeah!  What do I do now?  Do I have to cover my television screen?  No TV.  I have to do all this stuff to protect myself against this emanate danger, when they’re not going to stop me from living my life.  They’re can’t really take my will, unless I give it to them.


Vanessa:So, there has to be a point in realizing: “Well, they don’t really have any power over you, unless you give it to them.

Parthenia:Well, Kim, that was very liberating in your book about the fact that you have to GIVE your free will over to the dark forces.  So, I’d like for you to close out with an empowering perspective on freeing yourself from being reactive to the epic dramas in the world.

Kim Michaels:  Well, I can recognize the fear that Vanessa was talking about and I think most people go through a period where they are starting to wake up from the common sleep, where you are not aware of what’s going on in the world.  And then, you become aware of all of these things that are hidden.  And then, you go into almost a state of paranoia or obsessiveness.



Kim Michaels:  And that is because you feel disempowered.  You don’t know how to free yourself from it.  But, the empowerment is that you have completely free will and there is nobody, no force, whatsoever, in this world who can take it away from you; if you don’t give it to them.  And you only give it to them when you’re not aware.  So, this is again where we talked about the Conscious You becoming conscious of itself and realizing I am more than these outer things I’m involved in down here on this planet; and therefore, I don’t have to let these outer things run my inner life.  I can take back my inner, my inner situation, by looking at my reactionary patterns and letting them go, one at a time.  That’s what you were talking about, Parthenia, that you are beginning to realize it is possible to become whole.  And it really is.

Parthenia:Yeah.  And even though it is a process and it is a lot of work I think we need hope.  And that is what I would say your books are giving me, is hope.  As I’m coming out of this dark spiral, you gotta have hope.  Because without that, it’s hard to get up every day.  I know what that feels like, to give your power away and to feel the effect of these dark forces.  So, I thank you, Kim Michaels.

Kim Michaels:  Thank YOU.

Parthenia:And I again encourage everyone to go out and get this series of books, Freedom from Ego Illusions, Freedom from Ego Games, and Freedom from Ego Dramas.  Because, if you don’t know what games are being played on you and you don’t know the illusions you are caught up in, you cannot free yourself from the dramas.


Parthenia:So, liberate yourself today.  Thank you for listening to Divine Love Talk.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant.  And we’ll be back next week with more Divine Love Talk on CRN.



Copyright © 2014 Kim Michaels


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