Getting Results on the Spiritual Path

July 21, 2014 Divine Love Talk

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Guest: None.

Topics: Kim’s book, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path (

Parthenia:OK.  It is always a pleasure and privilege to be back here on CRN, hosting Divine Love Talk, and to have my co-host, Kim Michaels back with me.  Today we’re going to be going another of your books, Kim, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path.   

Kim Michaels:  OK.

Parthenia:I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who are like me, working hard every day and feeling like they’re not really getting anywhere.  And so, I thought what I would is there are certain passages and sections in there as I was reading over them, that I thought if I need some clarity; probably some other people who are reading the book would need some clarity, as well.  So, if you don’t mind, I’ll just shoot some questions at you.

Kim Michaels:  Sure.

Parthenia:And some quotes from the actual book for clarification.  The one thing I wanted to start out with.  You said that in order, like there’s this initiation or this test that we kind of have to go through at each level of spiritual growth and that the most dangerous enemy of spiritual growth is pride.  And this quote, I thought, was very on point.  You said some spiritual seekers have no problem taking directions from the person they consider their guru or their teacher; but they’re not willing to listen advice from someone they consider to be beneath them.  I’ve run into that personally with males who are on the spiritual path, when they are dealing with women who are on the spiritual path and just trying to have an intelligent conversation with them that’s kind of going back and forth.  The whole Piscean paradigm of the males knows more and is more spiritually advanced.  I have run into that and it just kind of shuts me down, when I’m dealing with some males that are on the spiritual path.  So, could you help me with that one?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  I have, of course, experienced the same thing; but I have experienced it from both men and women.  I would say that, in my experience, you especially see the problem with men in teachings that come from the East, especially from India and Tibet, where you have a very long-standing tradition of having male gurus and having very few women, who are either gurus or even spiritual seekers.


Kim Michaels:  That’s where I have personally experienced it.  And you said that’s the Piscean paradigm.  It shouldn’t have been the Piscean paradigm, I think.


Kim Michaels:  Because I think Jesus, right at the beginning of the Piscean Age, actually thought to elevate women to equal status.  But, of course, that was shut down, especially by the Christian Church.  But it certainly — We are not in the Piscean Age anymore.


Kim Michaels:  We are in the Aquarian Age.  And it’s the time of equality.  There is really absolutely no excuse for this in spiritual movements, I think.

Parthenia:Well, do you think a part of it could be the fact that there’s always — I kinda think about Moses and the desert, you know how that generation had to die out before they entered the Promised Land?  Could it be a bit of that?  Generally speaking what I’m talking about is older guys on the spiritual path.  The younger ones, I don’t see that so much with them.  They’re just looking for truth wherever they can find it.  But, do you think it could be maybe a part of that?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah, I think you’re probably right there.  I think you’re probably right.  I think back about my years on the spiritual path and I can see that there are definitely certain spiritual people that are very set in their ways, especially in the older generation.  They found a certain spiritual teaching or a certain guru.  They believe this is the superior one and they believe that if they just keep following that teaching to the letter, then they’re guaranteed to ascend, become enlightened, whatever the goal is of the teaching.  And I think you’re right.  There is very little chance that they are going to change in this embodiment.  You see much more flexibility in younger people.

Parthenia:And I do prefer to be in the company of younger people on the spiritual path, because there is a lot less rigidity and a lot more openness and innocence.  But I do find it challenging being around people who have been on the spiritual path for a long time, especially, as you said, people that have been to India and that got connected with a particular teaching there.  And when a woman has anything to say, there’s this sort of a competitiveness that comes up that really shouldn’t be there with spirituality.  I think it works better when there’s just this open exchange of – these are just ideas. I know when I spent some time with don Miguel Ruiz, his whole philosophy was you listen to everybody respectfully.  And just evaluate whether this information has any worth to you personally and if it doesn’t, then let it go.  You don’t have to attack it or put it down.

Kim Michaels:  Well, the other thing I would say to that is if the information doesn’t have any value to you personally, then see that it’s only at this point it doesn’t.


Parthenia:Right.  OK.

Kim Michaels:  And who knows what it will have in the future.  So what I see, and this, for instance, I see with the pride you were talking about, is that we all on the spiritual path have to be really, really aware of the subtlety of pride.  And it is the longer we are on the path, the more books we have read, the more spiritual exercises we’ve done, and the more elevated we think our guru is; the more there is this temptation to think now I’ve reached some kind of level.


Kim Michaels:  Something is behind me.  This I don’t need to think about or worry about anymore.  And this, of course, is exactly where the ego then starts growing; because it loves these blind spots when you say: “Oh here’s something I don’t need to look at.”  And I’ve seen it in myself and I’ve had to catch myself any number of times in this tendency.  And it’s really like you said, the most important quality on the spiritual path is the curiosity that springs from the innocence.  That’s why Jesus said 2000 years ago: “Unless you become as a little child, you cannot enter the kingdom.”  And what I think he meant primarily was you have to have that innocent curiosity where you don’t take for granted that you know everything and you are always open that somebody could come in with something that will teach you something and help you see something you have never seen before.

Parthenia:Well, that’s a very, very cogent point.  Thank you for reminding me of that.  I am interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels, about his book, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path.  And I know everybody, whatever it is that they are doing or learning or working on, that the key thing is you want to feel like you’re getting results.  And I personally have been getting a lot of ah-ha moments, Kim, in reading this book.  And I really appreciated you doing a lot of it in the first person, where you’re sharing your own personal experiences; because it’s less abstract that way.  Because when you give an actual example, I’m better able to relate it to my own experience.

And there was this part in there where you talked about accepting that you had been programmed to accept a lot of dualistic illusions.  And you said: “It was also a product of my own spiritual development or lack of it. I decided I wanted to know the truth far more than I wanted to defend the ego illusion that my current beliefs were the absolute truth.”  And I find that that’s a real dangerous trap, believing that any teaching that you currently have is an absolute truth.  Would you like to elaborate on that?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  There is only one absolute truth on earth.


Kim Michaels:  And that is that there is no absolute truth on earth.

Parthenia: (Laughter.)  Well.

Kim Michaels:  We are never, as long as we are going to be in embodiment, and we are experiencing the world through this apparatus of the physical brain and the outer mind; we will not be able to grasp an absolute truth.  That’s one thing.  But, the other thing is that no absolute truth can be expressed in words.  You have to experience it.  You can have a mystical experience and that puts you in contact.  That gives you a frame of reference.  But, as soon as you start putting words on that mystical experience, you have taken the absolute out of it and you make it relative to the words you are using and how people are interpreting those words and the whole deal.  And I think really it’s — Personally I made a decision several years ago to deliberately decide not to want an absolute truth.  There is nothing that I think I know that isn’t open to being expanded.

Parthenia:OK.  I like that.

Kim Michaels:  I do not want to close my mind so that a master or a guru, disguised as an ant, couldn’t come and help me grow.

Parthenia:… Speaking about not having absolute truth, there’s another quote where you said: “Finding truth was no longer associated with the fear and pain of being proven wrong. On the contrary, it was associated with the joy and freedom of escaping a crippling illusion.”  Because you’re pointing out that it’s sort of like death for most people, if they are proven wrong.  And I find that to be absolutely true in trying to have conversations with people that believe in absolute truths.

Kim Michaels:  Yes.  And I think on the spiritual path, if you are really serious about getting results, like I was talking about; it’s very helpful to realize that there are two contradictory forces at work in our psychology.  And one is the ego and the ego has, as we’ve talk about in the ego books — And the three ego books actually talk about different aspects of this. — The ego has an, really an unquenchable thirst for security and that’s why it want to have an absolute truth or an absolute belief system.  It’s the whole dream.  You talk about fundamentalist religions.  They are basically promising people that if you follow the outer rules and believe in the outer doctrines, you are guaranteed to be saved -


Kim Michaels:  - without having to do what Jesus said: “Look at the beam in your own eye.”  And so that’s the one tendency where the ego actually wants to elevate something into an absolute truth and then it wants to shut down your curiosity.


Kim Michaels:  And then, of course, the other force working is the curiosity, is the drive to know more, to understand more.  And it really is a matter of how are those two forces balanced in the individual.  And the people in fundamentalist religions, they are still so trapped in fear that they don’t dare to open their minds.  And I’m not criticizing them.  I’m not judging them.  


Kim Michaels:  I’m just stating my observation of this.  And then you have the people that are more open to something spiritual.  In them the curiosity is stronger, but we always to worry about, or at least be aware of, fear can come in and say: “Now, I found this guru. This is the ultimate guru. This is the highest teaching.”  

Parthenia:Right. … 


Parthenia:OK.  We’re back continuing our discussion with Kim Michaels about his book, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path.   Kim, we were talking about spiritual pride and people closing their minds and defending what they believe are absolute beliefs.  And you made a really relevant point where you said you came to this place where you realized that there’s this belief that if you’re proven wrong, that you’re a bad person.  I found that really interesting, because I never really understood why people will defend a belief that doesn’t make any sense.  And sometimes they’re aware that it’s wrong and they just want to be right.  And when you said that, that started to make a lot more sense to me.  If you could elaborate a little bit more about how you came to that insight.

Kim Michaels:  Well, I realized that I had, myself, especially when I was younger, I had been very, very concerned about being proven wrong.  And so I started thinking: “Well, why? Why do I feel this way?”  I usually do that with myself.  When I observe something in me that isn’t at peace, then I will start looking at it and I will say: “Why do I feel this way? What is the mechanism? What’s the belief I have underneath this feeling that makes me think – “  (Broadcast was interrupted.)

Parthenia:OK.  I like you sharing your process, because I saw another part in your book where you said: “No spiritual technique can work against your free will. A technique cannot resolve your incorrect beliefs, the mental images of your ego. You have to resolve them. And you have to do so by making a decision that replaces the decision that caused you to accept one of the ego’s illusions.”  And that process that you used in order to go back and try to find that original decision.  I find that a little challenging at times to try to figure out where on earth did that original belief come from that’s causing me to feel or act a certain way that I am no longer comfortable with and I want to more out of that negative feeling or negative belief, so could you talk about that a little more?  Because I find that a little challenging, because you said you have to find it and then be willing to look at it and then make a new decision.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah, well, what I always do is that I realize, of course, that any belief I have ever had in the past that is limiting me is a result of some mis-qualified energy that’s stored in my finer bodies, my energy bodies.  So, I always use the tools that the ascended masters have given us, the decrees, the invocations.  And on transcendence toolbox there’s 50 invocations to cover almost every topic.  

Parthenia:Lots of them.  Yeah.

Kim Michaels:  And so, if I’m dealing with a certain topic, I’ll try and find an invocation or use the decrees to consume the energy.  Because, see, what the energy does, it acts like a cloud or a fog and you can’t see the decision.  So, you really have to clear that away first.  And then I just — I totally understand what you are saying.  Many times you just can’t see what is going on.  And so, you have to keep prodding.  What is the thought?  What is the decision?  And in my case, I kept going around this until I realized that I was so identified with my beliefs, because my beliefs had given my ego a sense of superiority and status.


Kim Michaels:  Because I knew this.  I understood this.  I had this belief.  But, the down side of that — You know any advantage the ego gives you has a cost.


Kim Michaels:  And the cost was, if I beliefs were proven wrong; I was proven wrong.  That meant I was a bad person.

Parthenia:OK.  Well, that certainly helps, I think, any of us to be compassionate with people when they are just bent on defending beliefs that are not serving them and are not serving those around them. …


Parthenia:We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, and I am interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels, joining us from Estonia about his book, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path.   And Kim, I wanted to talk about the techniques that you use to bring into conscious awareness the incorrect belief.  If I understand it correctly, we can’t solve the problem, unless we’re conscious of where the problem came from.  And it seems to be kind of a conundrum that when your unconscious anyway and you’re in your ego illusions, you’re kind of lost in the fog.  And so, the question is: “How do we become conscious of those beliefs so that we can heal them?”  I assuming that you can’t just say a prayer of help me release my negative limiting beliefs.  Would that help?  I’m just asking.

Kim Michaels:  No.  I think you need to say: “Help me see them.“

Parthenia:OK.  Oh!  OK.  See.  Got it.

Kim Michaels:  Because you’re the one who has to release them.  And you can’t do that until you see them and see that they are limiting.  It’s not that we are bad people.  It’s not that we are stupid people.  It’s just that sometime in the past, probably in a past life that we have long forgotten; we were in a very difficult situation here on earth.  I mean you look at history, you see how many conflicts and wars and all kinds of atrocities are going on, even today.  And you can see that if you are confronted with such a very difficult physical situation, like your relatives being shot down in an airplane, or whatever; you can very easily adopt some kind of belief that you’re maybe not even realizing at the time.


Kim Michaels:  And then, it sits there in your subconscious mind and you build onto it, maybe over several lifetimes.  Because what happens is when we have one of these beliefs, we start looking for confirmation of the belief.  You have the old saying: “Is the glass half full or half empty?”  You have people who are always looking for the negative aspects of life.  And, of course, they find them.  And then, they feel validated that life is a problem, or somebody’s out to get them, or this or that.  And so, you build onto this belief over a long time.  And so, you actually think that this belief gives you — it does something that helps you.  It helps you deal with the world, as bad as it is, for example.  Or it helps you get a competitive edge, or whatever.

And so, you really have to come to the point where you dig down there and you see: “Oh, this doesn’t help me at all. This is actually taking away my freedom.”  And that really can be a process.  I understand that.  Personally, I have had situations where I knew there was something I was not at peace with, because I reacted.  I reacted my being upset or tense or whatever.  And sometimes it would take me a couple of years to dig down to where I had that final ah-ha moment that I knew, now, it was gone.  But, I had many smaller ah-ha moments on the way.  So, it’s not really an all or nothing process.

Parthenia:OK. Well, I’ll give you a literal example. … So, I’m conscious of where that came from, but I’m still unable to move out of it.  And my daughter and I were talking about it and she told me to ask you: “How is it that once you become conscious and you have made that decision that you want to move out of it, then there’s, of course, the negative ego voice that’s running interference?”  What can you do when you’re in that mean place to move out of it more quickly?

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  See, there are stages of this.  I mean, as you said, people are completely in the fog and have no idea what’s going on in their mind.  The subconscious mind is very like a computer.  And there are a lot of people, and myself included in certain areas of my life, I’ve just been functioning as a computer.  It’s just a program that’s running, that’s taking over my reactions to situations.  So, that’s the unconscious phase.  And then, you become conscious.  And now, you realize there’s something going on.  But, it doesn’t mean your SEEN it.  You haven’t gotten to the bottom of it.  And that’s exactly what you’re describing.  I’ve been there so many times, myself.  I still have things that I’m dealing with today that I haven’t seen, yet.  But, I just know that if I keep prodding at it; there’s going to come a point tomorrow, or next year, but it’s gonna come where I see it.


Kim Michaels:  Because I’ve gone through this so many times and I know you have, too.  And I know many spiritual people have.  We have so many breakthroughs, but we have suddenly come to see something and we look back and we say: “Oh, life is just so much bigger than I thought with that old belief.”  And so, we just have to be conscious that that means we can get to the bottom of all of these limiting beliefs we have.  But, really, what you’re describing, Parthenia, was not created in this lifetime.


Kim Michaels:  To me, it’s obvious that this goes back.

Parthenia:And I feel that you’re right, because I feel like all of the trauma at the school just brought it to the surface.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  It triggered it.

Parthenia:Yeah.  It triggered it.  And I really, really want to heal it.  So, I think that’s very helpful to ask to SEE what it is.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  You can ask your Christ self and the ascended masters to help you gain more clarity.  There are, also, even exercises on transcendence toolbox that will help you get more clarity.  There is a decree to a cosmic being called the Great Divine Director, which I have used.  And I’ve actually get a novena of this decree.  You can find it on transcendence toolbox by searching.  And if you give it nine times a day, every day for 33 days; and then, after you have given the decree, you kind of try to still the mind and you have a note pad.  And without judging and analyzing, you just write down whatever comes to you.  You go over it later, but you don’t analyze while you’re writing it.  And it’s kind of like journaling, but with the twist that you have given this decree, first.  And I have had some amazing experiences with that over the years.  And so, that’s a very practical hands on tool there.

Parthenia:Well, I can actually testify to the fact that I did do that decree for 33 days; but I only did it once a day and I did journal.  And that’s how I was able to write all of these poems and songs that all came out (?).  And I was actually shocked and amazed at what was coming forth.  So, I’m definitely willing to do it nine times a day.

Kim Michaels:  And I’d ask specifically for clarity with the problem you are dealing with.  And then, over the days that you are doing it; you will probably find that you will be able to make more and more precise calls, because you see more and more aspects of it.  And I can’t guarantee you that 33 days is enough.  I’ve had times where I’ve had to do it several times.  But, I don’t think you can do this for 33 days without feeling that you have really moved, you have really gotten some clarity.

Parthenia:Oh, I did.  I shifted in a lot of ways in that 33 days.  But now, yeah, I’m game.  I’m up

Kim Michaels:  But see, a problem like this, Parthenia, you look at history and you just see what has been going on on this planet.  Why are we spiritual people?  We’re spiritual people because we have an inner sense of how human beings should treat each other and how they shouldn’t.


Kim Michaels:  And that means that if you look back at our past lifetimes, it is almost inevitable that all of those who are spiritual people have been in these situations.  We have known what is right.  We have tried to take a stand for what’s right.  And we have been brutally and viciously put down for it, physically killed or tortured, or psychologically killed or tortured.  We talked about soul murder before on the show.  And I think most spiritual people have been exposed to this, because we have this inner sense of what shouldn’t be happening and we are courageous enough to speak out.  But, so many times we have just been put down.  And that has traumatized most of us.

Parthenia:I know for sure that what I went through over the past couples of years there, that it really was a metaphorical witch hunt and a crucifixion in its own right …

Kim Michaels:  And this is actually a hallmark of the Piscean Age, where you see Jesus at the very beginning of the Piscean Age actually setting the archetypal pattern where he was the individual who had Christ discernment and he tried to take a stand for what was right and he was put down by the mob, by the group.  And you see that over and over and over again.  And you see it today, as well.  And this is something we have to be aware of and we have to be aware that it has traumatized us.  But really what has traumatized us is that there is some belief we have in our minds that makes us believe we can’t just walk away from these people.

Parthenia:Um-hum.  I agree.

Kim Michaels:  And that’ what keeps us going back again and again and again.  I have no doubt that you chose to be in that school situation, because you have decided in this embodiment you want to get over this problem.

Parthenia:And I do.

Kim Michaels:  And so, you wanted to put yourself in a situation that triggered this trauma so you couldn’t ignore it.  That’s what many of us do.  I have done it myself.  And so, we really have to keep looking at this.  What is the belief that makes me think I can’t just walk away.  Why do I think I have to battle these people?  Why do I think I HAVE to take a stand?


Kim Michaels:  There are situations where we have to stand for truth.  But, as Jesus also demonstrated by dying on the cross; there are times where we have to just let it all go, just surrender it.  And just ascend from earth, instead of thinking we have to battle somebody.

Parthenia:I hear you on that one.  Once I got to that point where I gave it up and I said: “That’s bigger than me, over there.”  … I definitely know that I need to heal that, because I’m in the world.  I don’t want to be of it.  And your book is very helpful and I’m only half way through it right now.  But, I’m finding it very helpful in giving me hope that I will be able to heal this.  But, goodness, it’s like peeling one layer after another.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  There’s some stuff later in the book that will help you one this, because I really go into that, the whole psychology of it.  And also how I had to work through this.  And it is really, really subtle.  But, we always think that there is something we have to do.  And that is actually what imprisons us.  We think we somehow have to change other people.  But, we really have to realize that this planet is the arena for the outplaying of free will.  And we have to respect other people’s free will.  But, at the same time, we have to respect our own and that means we have the right to choose not to be pulled into other people’s ego games and epic dramas.  We can say: “I don’t want to play.”  They always come at you and they say: “Do you want to choose this or do you want to choose that? Do you want to join us or do you want to resist us?”  And we have the right to stand back and say: “Neither. I don’t want to have anything to do with your state of consciousness; because I don’t want any elements of that state of consciousness in my own being, anymore.”

Parthenia:And that’s true.  They want you to join them in their oppressiveness and darkness and craziness and drama.  And if you refuse to, they will not leave you alone.  They will keep finding ways to get you to react to them or to fight them so that they can then turn the tables on you.  And I’m at that stage where I don’t want to be at the effect of other people and their craziness anymore.  And every time I run across it, I’m looking at it as a test.  OK, this is just another test, another test.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  And really it’s amazing how often we get tested on things.  I have noticed in myself.  You can come to a point where you have actually seen the belief and the mechanism behind it.  You have seen it for what it is and you have surrendered it.  But, you will still be tested for some time afterwards.  Have you cleared the energies?  Are there other beliefs that tie into this?  Can they somehow pull you in again?  And Jesus said it.  The prince of this world comes and has nothing in me.  And to me, that has been the goal of my spiritual path is to get to that point where there really is nothing in this world that can force me to go into one of these reactionary patterns, where I’m pulled into this downward spiral.

Parthenia:That is my goal.  And I’m finding that the more I stay consciously aware, the less reactive I get.  And I feel better that I’m making progress. …


Parthenia:OK.  We’re back wrapping this up on Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, and I’m interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels, joining us via Skype in Estonia about his book, Getting Results on the Spiritual Path.   Kim, Vanessa and I were talking on commercial break about how you feel like you’re getting somewhere on the spiritual path and it’s sort of like the dark forces give you a break and then, there’s like a sneak attack and something will happen and you start to go into this reactive downward spiral.  And then, you know: “OK, this has to be a test.”  But, I find sometimes that I reach this point where if I don’t do sufficient invocations or the right ones; I will reach this point where I can’t hardly do anything.  I just have to cry out for help.  Does that make any sense, what I just said?

Kim Michaels:  Well, yeah, of course, and I think we all experience that.  It’s like the old story.  The man comes home to his wife and says: “It was so slippery out there. Every time I took one step forward, I slid two steps backward.”


Kim Michaels:  And she says: “Well, how did you get home?”  “Well, I finally turned around and walked the other way.”


Kim Michaels:  And that’s almost what we have to do.  We have to find a way to trick ourselves to recognize these old patterns, that you keep going into these patterns.  In your case, that’s your particular pattern.  I have others.  And people have their individual ones.  We have to recognize this.  Why do I keep going back into this pattern?  Why do I keep feeling this way?  And then, we have to try and get clarity again, until we see it.  I have often just, the moment I recognize that I’m doing something over and over again; that helps me tremendously.  Because then I can kind of have the determination.  And it’s almost like you just become aware and you catch it early on.  Now, what you were talking about there is if you have slipped too far down, it’s very hard to get back up.


Kim Michaels:  But, if you become more aware of it; you can actually learn to see when this temptation comes to start sliding back.  And then, the earlier you see it, the earlier you stop it, the easier it is.

Parthenia:Yeah, for sure, because it literally, physically will wear you out, to the point where you’re physically, mentally and emotionally too tired to even read the invocations.  And I’ve gotten to the point where I’m now having my personal conversations with God, asking for help in the moment; because I just don’t have the physical energy to go through an entire invocation.  So, you know you’ve gotten into a bad place, when you get to that point.

Kim Michaels:  Yeah.  I don’t know if you’ve tried doing it with a recording, because that can help you if you are at that point.  Because even giving it with a recording or listening to a recording can help.  But, I agree with you, it is tough sometimes.  And you just have to force yourself to keep going.

Parthenia:Well, that’s a good suggestion; because, yeah, I have been doing them with the recordings.  But, some of them I don’t.  And I didn’t know if they were effective if you just listened to them.  So they can be effective when you’re too tired, if you just listen?

Kim Michaels:  Oh, yeah.  It’s much better than nothing.  Much better than nothing.

Parthenia:Well, Kim Michaels, bless you.  And you know, now, I’m consciously keeping you in my prayers so that you can keep this information coming to us.  Eric and I were in awe at the amount of information that you are able to disseminate to the world.  So, I thank you for that.  And I thank everyone for joining us on Divine Love Talk.  And we’ll be back next week with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant.  And go out and check out Kim’s book.  Kim Michaels.  He’s all over the web.



Copyright © 2014 Kim Michaels


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