The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem, Part 3

September 30, 2013 Divine Love Talk

Guests: Vanessa Benjamin (Parthenia’s student intern) and Kim Michaels (co-host).

Topic: The book The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem by Kim Michaels.

Parthenia: OK.  Welcome back to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I am Dr. Parthenia Grant.  And today, we’re finishing up the three-part series on Kim Michaels’ new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  We’ve been talking on the past two shows about we-esteem versus me-esteem and what real self-esteem is.  So, welcome back, Kim Michaels.  

Kim: Thank you.

Parthenia: Would you go over very quickly for the audience what true self-esteem is, versus me-esteem and we-esteem?

Kim: Well, we are conditioned, as we grow up, to look for self-esteem outside ourselves.  And one way we can do this is to make ourselves look better than others.  We make ourselves stand out from the crowd.  And that’s what I call me-esteem.  The other way we can do it is we can try to blend in with the crowd so nobody criticizes us, because nobody notices us.  And that’s what I call we-esteem.  And both of those are, of course, not true self-esteem; because they are dependent on other people’s opinion of us.  And what I say in the book is that you can’t attain true self-esteem, unless it comes from inside yourself.  It has to come from the self.  

Parthenia: And you know that is the last place that anyone ever teaches us to look is inside of the self, because most of us, let’s say even when we’re talking - because you know I’m in the field of education, we’re talking – education; we’re looking for me-esteem by getting smarter than other people, by having more degrees, more accomplishments, more titles, more awards, more fame, more fortune.  And it builds up what you and I refer to as the ego, which has to make itself look good by making other people look bad, or being better than or less than someone else.  And I kind of see the we-esteem as you kind of sublimate your identity and yourself and you give it up for this group identity.  But I love the fact that in your book, which I think is very revolutionary, in the sense that it is making this distinction and calling our attention to the fact that - I think the greatest healing work that needs to take place on the planet is the search for and for us to work towards what you are referring to as I think true self-esteem or real self-esteem.  And so, now, I want you to go a little bit deeper into true self-esteem and how we can actually get it within; because I think most people don’t have a clue on how we can go within to find it.

Kim: Yeah, and that’s because, as you said, we have been brought up to look everywhere outside of ourselves for whatever we think we need.  And that’s, of course, because there’s two things going on in this world: somebody wants to control you and somebody wants to sell you something.  So, if you were brought up to realize that all of the things that are really important in life, you can only get from inside yourself; then they wouldn’t control you and they wouldn’t be able to sell you anything.  And I actually thing that the reason why we have spiritual teachers – and, again, I think Jesus is one of the most amazing spiritual teachers we’ve had in history – is that they demonstrate to us that we can actually get everything from inside ourselves.  And Jesus said, himself, the kingdom of God is within you.  And the problem is in our culture, we don’t learn anything about what the self is.  And that’s why we don’t know where to look.

Parthenia: Yes.  Well, I agree with you that we do have blueprints and we do have examples, Buddha, Mohammed, Christ, Krishna.  There have been so many throughout history that have all been saying the same thing.  You know, that you’ve got to go within, that you’ve got to love others as you love yourself and that we’re all one.  And somehow we are pretty dense.  I mean we are very, very slow and we have become very, very good at giving ourselves away, giving our power away to what other people think of us.  And so, today, again you’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I am talking with Kim Michaels, author of The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You can find his book on, Barnes and Noble.  You can download it on your Nook.  I really want to encourage you guys to go out there and read that book and to check out his website on transcendencetoolbox; because there are a lot of tools, spiritual tools that are available for free on that website that will help you build real true lasting self-esteem that won’t be blown away by other people’s opinions of you.

So, in this hour we’re going to be – Kim, I wanted to focus on some things that have come up that I’ve seen as, that are current and that I’ve seen as, patterns in a lot of people that are going through the same things that I have been going through in terms of moving out of me-esteem and we-esteem, which is a real tough conditioning program.  So, today I wanted to discuss and I wanted you to help us look at how we can stop reacting to these attacks on our self-worth and our self-esteem with these false accusations where we give our power away to the one that the Book of Revelations calls the accuser of the brethren, who accuses the brethren day and night.  I’ve had people, friends, calling me in tears - I’ve actually called you in tears – dealing with these vicious accusations that are attacks on our character and they’re so shocking and they’re so dark and hostile, that they are very difficult to deal with.  So I want to deal with that in this hour.  And then, I also wanted to look at how we can co-create a new reality by developing real self-esteem.  And I wanted, also, to look at the power of choice in co-creating real self-worth; because everything does boil down to choice and what we believe.  And I, also, wanted to try and look at why we cling so stubbornly to our limiting self-defeating beliefs that destroy our self-worth in terms of giving ourselves away to other people.  So, I know that’s a lot, but can we start out with that whole accuser of the brethren thing and how we can protect ourselves from that and restore our self-worth when we’ve allowed ourselves to beaten up and given away – and terrified by these people?

Kim: Yeah, I talk a little bit about in the book, where I say that we have been conditioned to believe that we are this outer ego-based self that is separate from God and that’s separate from other people.  And that’s why we always look outside ourselves for anything we need, whether it’s self-esteem or love.  And so, this happened a very long time ago.  Obviously, I believe in reincarnation and I talk a little bit about that in the book that I really don’t think you can understand the human psyche without understanding that we have had a long history on this planet.  So, we have many lifetimes where we have been exposed to these attacks.  And when we first came to this planet, when we first came into embodiment; we actually came as, what I call, our pure self.  And what then happened was that, because we were exposed to these attacks that come from other people, but that really come from some very dark forces that are seeking to control us; we created the ego and the outer self in order to deal with this attack.  And it was sort of a defense mechanism, because we were so blown away and overwhelmed by the viciousness of these attacks and we couldn’t understand: “Why are people doing this to us?”  And many of us have experienced that in this lifetime, where we look at people and we just can’t understand how they could possibly be so angry at us and have such an accusing energy.

Parthenia: Well, also, Kim, it’s even more painful when these are people that you love, that you’ve been good to, that you care about.  And then they repay that back to you with that kind of viciousness.  I think that that’s the hardest one for people to deal with.

Kim: Yeah, obviously.  I mean, it obviously is, especially when it’s people you’ve known and that you’ve trusted.  And I think many of experience that.  All of sudden it’s like they are different people.

Parthenia: Yeah.

Kim: And I believe that’s because they have actually – something has happened in their lives that was very painful to them, and they have sort of given up the control of themselves to a darker force that is using them to try to get to us.  That’s the only explanation I can come up with after studying this topic for over thirty years.

Parthenia: OK.

Kim: And so, it’s like we’re not really dealing with a human being anymore.  They have lost either their humanity or their respect for our humanity.

(Parthenia chuckles and says yes.)

Kim: And therefore they don’t treat us as human beings; they treat us as someone they actually want to destroy.  And that’s, of course, very, very shocking to us.  And so, most of us can’t really deal with that and so we want to just get away from it.  And that’s why we essentially say to the ego, you take over.  And so, the problem with that is that the ego can only respond in kind.  I mean, if somebody accuses us; we try to accuse them back.  Because if we can make them look bad, maybe we don’t look so bad, ourselves.  That’s the only way the ego can really deal with this.  And so, that only makes the situation worse.  Because we feel bad and we actually tie ourselves to the negative people, when we try to accuse them back.  And we end up feeling bad because of it.  And I think the only real way out of this is to try and just step back.  And look at the pattern and realize that this is actually – it’s the only thing the ego can do, it just can’t do anything else.  It has fight or flight.  And if it can’t run away, it will fight.  And either way, whether you try to run away or fight.  It just becomes a negative spiral.

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim: And the only way out of this is to try to reconnect to the pure self that you still are.  You see, what I say in the book is that the pure self can never be damaged or changed by anything that happens to us on earth.  That’s the beauty of God’s design.  It can be covered over by the outer self and the ego.  And the ego and the outer self can be hurt.  And that’s why we have these wounds that we find it difficult to heal.  I can’t really describe everything here, but in the book I go into where these wounds come from and what we can do to heal them.  And really to step back and say: “But I am not that outer self and so I don’t want to continue this pattern that the outer self is stuck in.”

Parthenia: OK.  Well, you’re listening to Kim Michaels.  We’re talking about his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem; which I think everybody needs to go out and get this book, because that’s what we’re suffering from right now is having - our self-esteem has suffered so many blows and so many attacks that - you know, Kim, when we’re not trying to accuse the other person back; we fall into this self-doubt.  We start looking at ourselves and going: “Oh, my God, am I really like that?”  You start questioning reality; because you know it’s not true, but you’re trying to figure out where it’s coming from.  And then it drives you crazy.  And what ends up happening is people lose their faith and their belief in God.  And so when we come back after commercial break, my daughter actually found an amazing old song by Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey called If You Believe (actually the title is When You Believe).  And I wanted to start out the next segment with that song about how we can restore our faith in our belief.  You’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  You can find us on facebook at Divine Love Talk and on YouTube at Divine Love Talk.

And you can find Kim Michaels and his book is The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You can get that in book stores at Barnes and Noble.


Parthenia: OK.  We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  I’m talking with Kim Michaels, our resident co-host and expert on the ego and spirituality, about his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  We’re finishing up a three-part series on this amazing book that is ground breaking and very revolutionary; because it’s pointing out the fact that what we think is self-esteem, he calls we-esteem or me-esteem.  That it’s really not true self-esteem.  And true self-esteem can only come from within where you’re not depending on other people for your sense of self-worth.  And it also has a spiritual connection to the Divine.  Is that not correct, Kim?

Kim: Yeah, definitely.

Parthenia: And I think we definitely overlook that in America in our quest for materialism.  Before the commercial break I said we would be bringing up the song, When You Believe.  As soon the engineer gets it cued up, Kim, we will go into that.  But meanwhile, we were also finishing up about how these attacks on us, these false, vicious attacks on us, by people that we know that we care about - sometimes they’re by strangers – how they can affect our faith and our ability to believe in ourselves.  But also, our desire or courage to just let our light shine and to have faith in the benevolence of the universe.  So, maybe you could shed a little light on that while we’re waiting on the song.

Kim: Yeah.  We’re all different, so we have different motivating factors.  But one of the things that really motivated me was that I came to this understanding that there is a force in this world and all it wants to do is to drag me into a reactionary pattern, where I am wasting my energy, I’m wasting my light, I’m wasting my time fighting these battles that never lead to anywhere.  

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim: They just keep me trapped in this ongoing pattern.  And when I saw that – and I really saw it not just intellectually, I saw it intuitively in an ah-ha experience – and that was it.  I thought: “I will not live my life this way.  I am simply not going to continue this and I’m going to do whatever it takes to break these patterns.”  And it’s subtle and I admit that.  And I still get caught in it once in a while.  But you really can get better at it.

Parthenia: Well, your book, I have to say, really was instrumental in helping me see the exact insight that you just shared, that there is no end to these attacks.  And it also helped me come into this place of acceptance that: OK I don’t control other people’s free will.  And their attacks on my character and my sense of self and who I am has nothing to do with who I truly am.  And I talked last week about this friend who showed up and told me: “You know, I just want to remind you of who you are and to give back to you what you’ve given to me.”  And when I asked him how he was able to withstand the vicious attacks by the accusers of brethren, where he had gone through this same thing, professionally, that I’m going through; he just answered so calmly with: “Because I knew the truth.”  And something as simple as that can get you through it.  And I know that throughout my lifetime, being viciously accused of things that I didn’t do, that always helped me.  But what happened was when people started ganging up on you professionally – and it’s such a whirlwind - and you go into this downward spiral; it’s very, very difficult to keep your wits about yourself.  An that’s where, Kim, your website has been so helpful with all of the spiritual tools that you share that have helped me bring in more light, when a whole pack of hyenas are after me like sucking my light.  They’re like vampires.  And there’s no end to it.  And I know that you’re right and every day I still have to remind myself: “OK, I don’t have any control over them, but I can NOT react.  I can do something positive.  I can go to your website.”  And that has been my saving grace.  So, when we come back after commercial break, we will have the song, When You Believe.  And we’re going to also look at why we cling so stubbornly to these self-limiting beliefs that destroy our self-worth and how we can use our power of choice to co-create a new reality and a higher sense of self-worth.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  I interviewing Kim Michaels about his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.



Parthenia: OK, we’re back with more Divine Love Talk on CRN with Dr. Parthenia Grant.  We are going to be talking about the power of belief in co-creating your new reality and a higher sense of self-worth.  And we’re opening up with Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston with When You Believe.

Kim: Yeah, I think that was very beautiful the way the song portrayed that.  In my terminology that I’m using in the book – when we actually realize that we are still the pure self, that’s when we feel the way she said.  We feel full.  Because the thing is what the accusers are projecting at us is that we are somehow wrong, there is something wrong with us, we have no right to be who we are.  And they are also projecting that: “By the way, God looks at you the same way we do.”

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim: And that’s what - like you talked about earlier – that’s what shakes our faith in God.  Because we have for so long in this world been bombarded with this image that God is the angry and judgmental god in the sky.  So when someone accuses us, we’re thinking: “Are they right?  Is God really looking at me that way?”  And that shakes our inner childhood innocence and our child-like faith in God.  And the only way to get beyond that is really to go in and again experience yourself as the pure self.  Experience your connection to your higher self, which I describe in the book.  And then you will actually feel the reality that no matter what anybody says, no matter what mistake you might have made or that you are accused of having made; God loves YOU unconditionally.  And there is nothing on earth that can ever take God’s love away from you, because contrary to what some people say; God does not follow human opinions.  God knows that he created you infinitely beautiful and God loves you that way and will always do so.  And the only that has happened to it is that we’ve forgotten that.  We have lost that child-like innocence.  And that’s why Jesus told us we have to become as little children, go back into that innocence.  And really, true self-esteem is that.  When we are connected and then we realize that self-esteem is the natural state of the pure self.  It’s not the state of the ego.  Because the ego will never, ever attain self-esteem, no matter what status you attain here on earth.  Just look at some of the big movie starts or sports stars or what have you, people that have become famous.  And why do they so often start drinking or turn to drugs or go into other destructive spirals?  Because it just isn’t enough for you.  So we have to find it within.

Parthenia: But, not only that.  I know that the media in America, in particular – we like to create heroes and then rip them apart.  We just enjoy destroying the things that we build up.  So, I think everybody feels this sense of vulnerability to the viciousness that’s out there.  And there’s this feeling that I’m just not safe.  But, what has helped me is - your book has helped a lot, your website,  And I want to encourage people to go out and get The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem by Kim Michaels, because we really have to, on our own, build true real self-esteem within ourselves that does not rely on anyone else’s opinion of ourselves.  And I remember my mother used to tell me what other people think of you is none of your business.  And as a kid, you don’t really get that.  You’re like: “What do you mean it’s none of my business what people think of me?  ‘Cause they’re saying all this stuff and it’s not true.”  And I think you wife, Helen, really brought it home to me the other weekend.  You know, when she said that your reputation doesn’t belong to you, because anybody can attack it.  Anybody can say whatever they want to say about you.  And people will believe whatever it is they want to believe.  And there’s nothing you can do about it.  And I think just accepting that – you know, when you move into that place of acceptance.  You’re like: “OK.  I can’t do anything about that.  So, why go into this downward spiral?  I know who I truly am.  And so, I’m going to act like I’m a child a God and go out and enjoy life.”  Because life really is so beautiful.  This planet is really so beautiful.  And there’s so many things to be grateful for.  And there’s so many things to enjoy.  When we consider how much of our lives we’ve thrown away in misery and pain and suffering that we’ve allowed to heaped upon ourselves and all these beliefs that we bought into.  Kim, it has really, really bothered me how we will viciously cling to these negative belief patterns that do not serve us.  And when you try to tell somebody: “OK, look, that isn’t serving you,” they will hold onto it and fight to the death.  Like Morpheus told Neo in The Matrix: “Those people are plugged into the Matrix and if you try to unplug them, they will fight you to the death.”  For a very system that is feeding off of them.  And it is utterly insane.  And so when we look at the insanity around us, we really know that we need a reality check.  And I think your book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem, is an amazing reality check.

Kim: Yeah, I was just thinking today, when I was driving - I was thinking that I want to get completely out of the business of trying to change other people’s minds.  And it really boils down to understanding free will.  And this – I have found so many people on the spiritual path, who just haven’t really contemplated free will and how important it is.  And it’s taken me a long time to really get it.  But, the fact is that God gave ME a will that is completely free.  And he gave everybody else a will that is completely free.  If somebody chooses to go into a negative state of mind, where they find it necessary to direct their negativity at other people, for example me; that is their free will choice.  God has literally given them the right to do this.  And if I fully respect their free will, I say: “OK, but just because they are accusing me, I don’t really have to attack them back.  I don’t really have to try and change them.  They’re just exercising their free will.”  But then, I have to realize God gave ME free will.  And if I fully respect my free will, I actually have a right to live my life without these negative people.  And what really helped me, was that I came to a point where I realized: “Well, you know, even if I wanted to, I couldn’t change these people minds. –

Parthenia: At all!

Kim: - Because once people have decided to be negative, there’s no argument you can come up with that would change their minds.  Because they don’t hear anything, except what validates their negative outlook on life.”  And so I realized, I can’t help these people.  But, as you said, the world is beautiful.  But I would also say: “There are so many beautiful people in the world and maybe I could help and inspire some of them.”  And so, who am I focusing my attention on?  The people I can’t help, because they want to be negative; or the people I might be able to inspire, because they want to be positive.  They want to improve their lives.

Parthenia: True.  Yes!  And you right.  And that’s where I’ve had to focus my energy.  Princess, one of the people that’s been on the show before – she always find these amazing quotes.  And she found one by Gandhi, where he said: “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”  And I thought - I just so love Gandhi – and I thought: “Wow, that’s exercising free will.”  People want to put their dirty, vicious, mean perceptions and overlay their perception filters onto me, but I have to allow it.  And I also remember Eleanor Roosevelt saying that no one can hurt you without your permission.  And I really do have to receive this negativity in order for it to hurt me and I have to react to it in kind of way.  And I know that when I’m talking to the audience and Kim that you’re doing the same thing.  You and I both know how difficult this is not to react to people attacking you.

Kim: Oh, absolutely.

Parthenia: So, we’re not saying that this is easy.  And I certainly know why the spiritual path is so difficult and why people choose not to develop the discipline that is required to rise on the spiritual path.  Because the higher you rise on the spiritual path, then the more vicious the attacks can become.  But, when we change our perception filter, we can look at these people through the eyes of compassion.  And we can give ourselves a break a say: “You know what?  I’m just going to go out in nature.  I’m going to connect with Mother Earth and heal myself, or be around people that really care about me, and forget about these other people.”  It really is that simple, isn’t it?

Kim: Yeah.  But you know, what you were saying triggered a thought in me, because I have noticed in myself that there can actually be a certain risk factor involved with being on the spiritual path.  You are really walking a very delicate balance, especially when you are talking about self-esteem.  We are saying if you really want to have true self-esteem, you have to stop reacting to other people.  Well, it’s so easy for the ego to use that and say: “Hey, look.  You reacted to that person last week.  That shows you’re not as spiritual as you think you are.”

Parthenia: Yes.  Absolutely.

Kim: And other people may even say that to you.  And so, we have to give ourselves time to grow.  And we have to give other people time to grow.

Parthenia: Yes!

Kim And I think that’s really, really hard in this culture, where instant gratification is like the new religion and everything has to happen in ten seconds, or it’s not worth doing.  (Parthenia chuckles.)  It really is a lifetime pursuit.

Parthenia: Yeah.

Kim: Spiritual growth should be looked at – we’re not going to be perfect as long as we are on this planet.  I was just, actually, reading Diana Williamson’s book, Return to Love, yesterday.  And she said that what often happens in a love relationship is that we have these images of how things should be.  And that means that nobody is allowed to be a human being anymore.  We’re not allowed to have faults.  We’re not allowed to make mistakes.  We’re not allowed to be growing and having time to grow and not being perfect yesterday.  And I think that’s really, really important to keep that in mind.  And that’s, of course, what the accuser’s will not give us space to be who we are, to fumble around and make mistakes and fall back into old patterns and then pull ourselves out of them, again.  And so, yes, even the concept of self-esteem can be used by the ego to beat yourself up.  And we really have to be aware of that.

Parthenia: Wow.  Yes, it is in this.  So thank you for reminding me of that, ‘cause I’ve certainly gone through that, where you’re doing your very best and they react to that and go: “See!  See!  See, you really aren’t that spiritual.”  And so, it really does make you feel bad and it makes you feel like you have to be perfect.  Where the truth is, if we were perfect; we wouldn’t be on THIS planet.  We’d be somewhere else, ‘cause – 

Kim: There’s no way we could even hold on to a physical body on a dense planet like this, if we were – 

Parthenia: Perfect.

Kim: - in a higher state of consciousness.  Yeah.  It couldn’t be done.

Parthenia: Well, we have to remind ourselves that this – You know, Rompus says that planet earth is the backwoods of the galaxy.  We’re not very evolved.  Just look out at the world around you.  This planet is not very evolved.  So, you can’t have really high expectations, too high expectations.  But, we can choose to enjoy the life that we’ve been given.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  I’m interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels, about his amazing new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You want to check out his website at transcendencetoolbox and go out and get that book.   We’ll be wrapping this up after commercial break.  Thank you for joining us and check us out of facebook and on YouTube on Divine Love Talk.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.


Parthenia: OK, we’re back wrapping up this trilogy on Kim Michaels’ new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant, host of Divine Love Talk.  Kim Michaels is my co-host and expert on the ego and spirituality.  I think you should check out all the tools he has for you on  Kim, as we’re wrapping this up, what came to mind was a scripture, James, the fourth chapter, where he says when you judge the law; you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.  And he says: “Who are YOU to judge your neighbor?”  And he says to wash your hand centers and purify your hearts, you double minded.  And then he says: “Come near to God and he will come near to you.”  Now, there’s a lot of wisdom in that verse.  My daughter actually found it last night and shared it with me.  But, we tend keep judgment on ourselves and judgment on others.  And, to me, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law and love is the fulfilment of the law.  And if we want to keep the law, then it means that we would need to do the work of loving ourselves and loving our brother as ourselves, which is the golden rule.  And it’s all really simple, if we could just focus on the simple things.  And when he talks about washing your hand centers and purifying your hearts, you double minded; it reminds me of the duality consciousness, which is the ego.  So, could we close out with you touching on that scripture?

Kim: Yeah.  Let’s take Jesus’ statement: “Do unto others what you want them do unto you.”  And then give it a twist.  Do unto others, because what you are doing unto others you are also doing to yourself at subconscious levels.

Parthenia: True.

Kim: If you are judgmental of others, it’s because you have entered into an aspect of the ego-based consciousness that constantly judges everything.  And that means that you are also judging yourself.  And because you can’t stand that ingoing judgment, you have to divert your attention to an outgoing attention towards others.  And it’s really just a diversionary tactic to avoid recognizing your own pain.  And the only way to get out of that is to realize: “Yes, I did choose to step into this consciousness, but I have not become that consciousness.  I am still a pure self.  And the fact that I chose to step into the consciousness means I can also choose to step out of it.”

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim: And that is really when we take responsibility for our own state of mind.  And Jesus said: “The kingdom of God is within you,” which to me means the kingdom of God is a state of consciousness, like you said, based on love.

Parthenia: OK.

Kim: And if we are not in love, if we’re responding with fear; that’s the problem.  And we have to step out of fear and back into love.

Parthenia: Well.  And you know, it really is that simple, but it’s something that we constantly have to remind ourselves of every step of the way.  And in the book you talked how every day you try to become better than you were yesterday. And that you choose to focus on constant self-transcendence.  So, thank you all for joining us on Divine Love Talk.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant with Divine Love Talk on CRN and with my co-host, Kim Michaels.  Go out and get his book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  And we can all start enjoying life and leave behind all of these unnecessary fears that the ego keeps pulling us into.  So, peace and blessings to everyone out there and we will see you next week on Divine Love Talk.



Copyright  2013 Kim Michaels




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