Take Democracy to the Next Level


July 20, 2015 Divine Love Talk

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Guest: Kim Michaels, in studio

Topics: Taking Democracy to the next level. Responsibilities of citizens to be educated and vote directly versus expecting to be represented. The enemy of democracy is this consciousness, not only of elitism that some people are better; but also that some people should be excluded.

Parthenia:Alright. This is an historic moment for Divine Love Talk, because this is the first time that I actually have Kim Michaels in studio, live, face to face. We've got live video feed of him. And he was in town this weekend doing a conference on love versus anti-love. And anchoring some new light and some new energy and some new thoughts into the minds and the morpho-genetic field of America. It was so exciting, just so thrilling and liberating. I wish you guys could have been there. But we are going to be putting up some tidbits of it, video clips and sound bites of it on Kim Michaels' website and on my youtube channel. So, stay tuned for some of the highlights of the ascended master conference for Los Angeles. So, Kim Michaels, welcome live, in studio.

Kim Michaels:Thank you, Parthenia. It's good to be here and not have the Skype delay.

Parthenia:Right! It's almost what? 30 seconds or 5 second delay.

Kim Michaels:Ah, just a few seconds; but it's enough that you don't really want to interrupt people. So, now, I'm going to interrupt you.

Parthenia:(Laughs.) Absolutely! Because there were so many wonderful insights. And today I wanted to focus on how America can democracy to a new level. There were some very cogent, very profound and quite simple insights that were revealed to us that I personally was already aware of. And I've been kind of pushing these concepts on facebook for about a year and a half. So, I'd like you to lead off that discussion and talk about, share some of the new insights.

Kim Michaels:Let's just be frank first. Because it's not just in America that people are dissatisfied with their government. It's the same in Europe, where I live. And I think it's simply very obvious why. Because democracy wasn't forced on people. Right?


Kim Michaels:You can force a dictatorship on people. But if a certain number of people aren't ready for democracy; you can't force it on them. So, that means that the people had to be attuned to the founding fathers when they created American democracy.


Kim Michaels:And that means that if you look at the people today and their dissatisfaction; they are attuned to one simple fact. That the current state of democracy is past its due date.

Parthenia:Ahh. Right! Amen. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:And that's why we need to say: “Listen to the people and their dissatisfaction.” They may not know why they're dissatisfied, but they feel that something isn't right. And that's why we need to look at democracy and say: “This is not a static state.” It's like the founding fathers in 1776 could create the perfect system that's going to work for all time.


Kim Michaels:We have evolved SO much. Technology has gone so far beyond what they could even imagine. And so, we can do things today that they couldn't do back then. Communication was so poor back then, compared to now. They had to create a representative democracy. There was no other way. Right?

Parthenia:OK. That makes sense. Yes.

Kim Michaels:But today we have the technology and why not let the people vote on the issues; rather than letting the representatives?

Parthenia:Directly! What a concept. And I'm seeing, especially on facebook and social media where people are so frustrated now; because the representatives are not hearing their voices. … So, what kind of democracy is this? If you're not listening to us, and we show up in huge numbers, and you just ignore us.

Kim Michaels:It is a contradiction that you vote for representatives and then they can come and force something on you.

Parthenia:Yes. And just ignore us.

Kim Michaels:We've got to find a way to deal with that. And I think the only way is to let the people be heard more. And that's what we can do with technology today. I mean, they've done it in Switzerland for many years. There are other countries in Europe.

Parthenia:Tell us how. What do you mean? What are they doing?

Kim Michaels:In Switzerland they have it so that there are representatives in Parliament; but there are certain issues that are considered big important issues.

Parthenia:For the people.

Kim Michaels:Yes. And they have to be decided by a direct public referendum.


Kim Michaels:They used to do it by phone or by people showing up and voting for these issues. But today, we have the internet and that can make it much easier.

Parthenia:And what I was pointing out is we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Through the internet you can create discussions about the issues and you can also show both sides of it. Because our media is quite controlled and manipulated. Not CRN. We actually have free speech here and we get to show both sides of everything. But through the internet people can get educated on all sides of the issue. But we don't even have to reinvent the wheel, because shows like American Idol were ground breaking where with your cell phone you could call in and vote for who you wanted to win. And now, so many other shows are doing the same thing. And so, I was thinking, with the corruption in voting, how do we get away from the corruption? Well, when you buy a cell phone from a regular carrier, you have to have a social security number. You have to show your ID that this is who I am. And when you vote you have to do the same thing. You have to show that I'm not a dead person. Although, in the 2000 election dead people voted.

(Both laugh.)

Kim Michaels:And dead people got elected.

Parthenia:(Belly laughs.) So, there's got to be a way to get around this. So, that's one idea.

Kim Michaels:But there are some technical challenges, of course. And I'm not an expert on that. But I just know it has to be possible to do this. They have discussed in Denmark, for example, that it's difficult to make you vote over the internet without them being able to trace what you vote for.


Kim Michaels:And in Denmark they are so concerned about this, you go into the voting booth and nobody's looking over your shoulder. But I don't even care if somebody knows who I vote for, as long as I can vote directly. That shouldn't stand in the way, if that's a technological catch 22. I don't know that it is, but.

Parthenia:At the same time, everybody's got a cell phone. Pretty much in third world countries, you see people with cell phones all over India.

Kim Michaels:Of course, people could have more than one. So, there are going to be issues there.

Parthenia:That's very true. They can have more than one and so we have to figure out and the burner phones and all that. But it's not like we're not without solutions.

Kim Michaels:No. There has to be a technical way to deal with it.

Parthenia:Yeah. And the system is already set up. And there are a lot of ideas out there. So, I want to encourage people to start talking about this and start engaging this concept that we don't have to be forced fed policies that insult our soul and that take our freedom of choice away from us.

Kim Michaels:I think what people are feeling today is that they are voting for representatives and then the representatives don't respect them.

Parthenia:YES! That's exactly correct.

Kim Michaels:They do whatever they want, once they're in there. And I sense that it's almost like people are beginning to realize that when you go through an election campaign; it's like the people running, they are putting on this facade and telling people what they want to here.

Parthenia:Promise you everything.

Kim Michaels:And then when it comes down to politics, they're just sitting there and making decisions completely disrespecting the people. And that's what we need to get away with. (from?) And I don't see any other way than let the people vote. And I know very well that there are going to be people who say: “But the people aren't ready to vote. It would be a disaster. They don't know.”

Parthenia:They're not intelligent enough. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:Exactly. And that's probably what they said 200 years ago.

Parthenia:They did! They did! Actually, I put on facebook a couple weeks ago that John Adams, when Abigail, his wife, was asking him to allow women to vote – That was a long time ago. – And he was like: “We have no intention of giving away our male privilege.”

Kim Michaels:And look at that. So, when you look at that; you see that even the founding fathers, they were caught up in what I think is the bane of democracy: elitism.

Parthenia:Yeah. Of course! Absolutely.

Kim Michaels:How insane is it to think that women are not intelligent enough to vote. I mean, give me a break.

Parthenia:John Adams also said that the office of the president was too important of an office to leave it to the people to decide. He said that's why we have the electoral college.

Kim Michaels:See. That's another dinosaur from the past. It just needs to be put out to pasture.

Parthenia:And I also believe we have the ability with the internet to educate people. Because studies have shown that if you give people the information, not just one-sided propaganda, but all sides of the issues; then people are able to make informed decisions. They cannot make good decisions when there's just one side of the issue that's being promoted.

Kim Michaels:But here's how I look at it. We have a democracy that is run by an elite. Are they doing good?

Parthenia:NO! F-.

Kim Michaels:No. So, how much worse can it be, if the people vote?

Parthenia:What do you have to lose?

Kim Michaels:And the way I look at it is: it's not a matter of creating some kind of perfect democracy or some kind of perfect state. Life is an evolutionary process. It's a learning process. If the people make mistakes, they will learn from it.

Parthenia:And it's our mistakes. Right?

Kim Michaels:Exactly. The thing I think is a problem here is that a lot of people think that democracy is an easy form of government.

Parthenia:No. You have to take responsibility with democracy.

Kim Michaels:It's the hardest form of government; because if you don't take responsibility as an ordinary person and educate yourself, then democracy is not going to work.

Parthenia:Get informed.

Kim Michaels:But, as you said, it's never been easier to educate yourself.

Parthenia:Oh, my goodness. So, I think the time is right. I think it's just that the consciousness of the American public has to shift into: “I'm ready to take responsibility on these issues. And I have the ability to inform myself about these issues. And I have the right to vote and say no or say yes.” Because what happened with our democracy is we abdicated responsibility to the representatives and we believed that they had our best interests at heart.

Kim Michaels:Of course.

Parthenia:… ”Why would they do that?” That's the wrong question. They do it because they can! They do it because it makes them feel powerful. So, you gotta ask better questions.

Kim Michaels:People will do whatever they can get away with.


Kim Michaels:History proves that.

Parthenia:Over and over and over again.

Kim Michaels:And that's the whole idea of democracy is that they shouldn't be able to get away with it. They shouldn't be able to hide.

Parthenia:And they do! Yes.

Kim Michaels:You go back in Europe in the feudal societies, where you very clearly – Most of the people were the property of the landowner. They knew they were enslaved. So, you've gotten away from that form of government with democracy.


Kim Michaels:But the problem is that if we don't know we're enslaved, then democracy can be just as tyrannical as a dictatorship.

Parthenia:And it really is. And yet, you still hear people say: “Yes. But one of the most amazing things about America is we're so free.”

Kim Michaels:And that is so funny for a person who's not from America.

Parthenia:(Laughs.) Well, tell us from the standpoint of a European. Because when I travel, the Europeans look at us and they ask me: “What is wrong with Americans?” And I always say: “Well, they watch FOX TV.” (Kim laughs.) What do you want for a nickel? ...

Kim Michaels:But I think – I've lived in the US. So, I've been on the receiving end. I think there is a problem there. We feel we are free, but are we? We're not willing to examine where we are.

Parthenia:OK. So, let's talk more about that in the next segment. You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I am your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant. You can find us on Divine Love Talk on facebook and Kim Michaels on transcendencetoolbox.com. I'm so excited to have him here in studio. And we're talking about how we can take democracy to the next level. The people! Not the representatives. OK. We will be back with more after commercial break on CRN.


Parthenia:OK. We’re back, continuing our discussion with Kim Michaels, who is in studio today. And we're talking about how Americans can take democracy to the next level. So, Kim, pick up with that discussion that we left off with.

Kim Michaels:I think what I sense in Americans is that America is such a big country – And it is so self-sufficient. It is so strong. It is so dominant in the world. – that a lot of Americans think that nothing really bad could ever happen to America. And so, the fact that we have won our freedom by getting democracy means it will be there forever. Nothing can take it away, except some kind of external enemy, but we have the biggest army. We can defend ourselves.


Kim Michaels:See, growing up in Europe, we were much more vulnerable. We had Nazism. Denmark was occupied for five years. Everybody knew that it's not a given that you have democracy. But I don't think there's an external enemy that's going to take over democracy. But look at the internal and what's happening here.

Parthenia:Oh, my goodness, yeah.

Kim Michaels:And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe there's an evil conspiracy that's running America behind the scenes. But I just believe that there has been this mindset of elitism that has grown. It's been there from the beginning, but it's grown stronger and stronger of people they feel they have a right to run the country behind the scenes. They have a right to deceive the people, because the people aren't intelligent enough to know. It's better that they don't know what we're doing for their own good.

Parthenia:(A swallowed laugh and a tongue in cheek: “Yeah.”)

Kim Michaels:And that's what we need to stop.

Parthenia:And I think until people are willing to accept that the people in power might have the very worst possible motives; then you can't get to that point. But there is an awakening. So many young people are questioning our leaders. So many of them are disillusioned with them. And the government is pretty afraid right now. … Why would our government be preparing for martial law if they weren't afraid of people standing up and saying enough already?

Kim Michaels:But see, I think it's legitimate that the government is trying to prevent some kind of anarchistic uprising, because that's not really in anybody's interests.

Parthenia:I agree.

Kim Michaels:I'm not for violent revolutions in any way, shape or form. But I also think that the potential for a violent uprising is because the people, in general, haven't woken up and taken responsibility for the government. Because I understand in a sense why the elite believes that they should run the country, because they believe that the people don't care. That they just want to live their ordinary lives and go to work, take care of kids, go to the beach –

Parthenia:Let somebody else take care of it.

Kim Michaels:And then believe that the representatives are going to do all the work for them.

Parthenia:What they elected them to do.

Kim Michaels:And that's what I think we have to – We've been sold that bill of goods that if we just vote every four years, that's all we need to do in a democracy. But that's not where our responsibility ends. It doesn't end when we leave the voting booth. It's a constant process where we need to educate ourselves. And I think every single person should have one issue where they educate themselves and become an expert. You can't know everything.

Parthenia:That's important to them.

Kim Michaels:Something they feel for. And then, they educate themselves. They know enough about it to speak intelligently to their – all the people they know. And that means that if you have that; every single American will know somebody who's an expert on whatever issue comes up. So, you just call up Aunt Ruthie and say: “Hey. What's going on with this?”

Parthenia:(Laughs.) That's true.

Kim Michaels:And then, you can inform yourself. And if there is a vote on something, you don't have to take the government's word for it. Because you know somebody in you family or circle of friends and you know their credible and you believe what they're saying.

Parthenia:Wow! And it's so simple. I love that.

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:Everybody knows I got my three issues that have to do with poisoning the water, the food and the air. And then, taking away our freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Those are really, really big for me. … What is the point of having a Constitution when you can create bills that are un-Constitutional?

Kim Michaels:Yeah. Yeah. For them the Constitution is just something you pay lip service to.

Parthenia:Oh. Clearly.

Kim Michaels:You were saying they could have the worst interests at heart. I don't actually think that most of the people in the government have the worst interests. They have, they had, good intentions. But what is the road to hell paved with?

Parthenia:Good intentions.

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:But you have to be able to wrap your head around the possibility that they might not have the best intentions.

Kim Michaels:Or even just that they have been deceived by this elitist –


Kim Michaels:– mindset that they think that what is good for the elite is good for the people.

Parthenia:That's true. I mean, I agree. But I think he was referring to the elite with that quote. OK. We'll be back with more discussion with Kim Michaels in studio on taking our democracy to a whole new level. You're listening to Divine Love Talk on crntalk.com. I am your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, with Kim Michaels from transcendencetoolbox.com. And we're on facebook at Divine Love Talk. OK. We will be back with more after commercial break.


Parthenia:OK. We’re back, with more of Kim Michaels in studio. And we're talking about how we can take democracy to a whole new level. And Kim Michaels, during commercial break, had some great ideas. So, Kim, just jump in there.

Kim Michaels:I think we have to look at the roots of American democracy and the founding fathers and their vision. I grew up in Denmark and Denmark has a state church. It's a Christian, Protestant state church. But most people are not religious. They are either atheist or they just don't go to church or they go to church for cultural reasons. And we have this illusion in Denmark that we can have a democracy where people are not religious or spiritual. And I think the founding fathers had a great insight on that point. Because they separated church and state, –

Parthenia:For good reason.

Kim Michaels:– but they didn't rule out God from the government.

Parthenia:That's true, because they said: “One nation under God.”

Kim Michaels: Yeah. And so, the way I see that is that democracy is based on a basic acceptance that human beings have rights that no power on earth can take away from them, including the government.


Kim Michaels:That's essentially what you were talking about with the Constitution. That the Constitution gives people rights.

Parthenia:Inalienable rights!

Kim Michaels:But the government has found ways to undermine that and almost take them away without people knowing it. And so, we have to have that respect that there is a higher power that has given each human being rights that nobody on earth can take away, including the government. And so, that's where we then have to look at what struck me as a really amazing point I never thought about before. We normally say that democracy started in Athens 2500 years ago. But when you look at history, they had slavery in Athens. They excluded women in Athens. There was only a small elite of people who were allowed to vote in that first democracy.

Parthenia:Men. That's right.

Kim Michaels:So, look at American democracy.

Parthenia:Same democracy.

Kim Michaels:They excluded women in the beginning. We had slavery and we had to have the Civil War to get over that and we've still not healed that wound. So, I think what we have to realize here that the enemy of democracy is this consciousness, not only of elitism that some people are better; but also that some people should be excluded.

Parthenia:Absolutely. Yeah.

Kim Michaels:One of the things we talked about at the conference was these tensions in America between different groups. And we talked about the racial issue –

Parthenia:Oh yeah. The intolerance.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. The incredible intolerance. And so, it's almost like there is an elite that wants to rule, because they believe they are the only ones who know. And what they do is, they actually deceive a large group of people by making many Americans believe that this or that group should somehow be excluded from society.

Parthenia:Oh, absolutely. Them versus us. We talked about the black and white thinking, where this group is evil. It's like angels and demons. You're either an angel or you're a demon. And so, different groups get demonized. And we forget the humanity

Kim Michaels:And so, it's almost like you have a system where, even though everybody is supposed to have rights; it's OK to discriminate against this particular group because they've done something, so they don't deserve to have the same rights as everybody else. The problem is, if you allow that, you are on a slide; and before you know it, everybody has been discriminated against.

Parthenia:So true! And Martin Luther King hit the nail on the head, when he said that an injustice anywhere in the world is a threat to justice everywhere in the world. And that definitely applies here. And people do get caught up in this little microcosm of their stuff and they really believe that all of these other issues are not important, because they don't affect them directly right now. They don't look at the big picture of what's at stake. And you made a really cogent point about our God-given inalienable rights. …

Kim Michaels:You look at this again with the separation of church and state. This is what I see. Now for 35 years, I have been into a universal spirituality that goes beyond particular religions. And so, I think the founding fathers saw the same thing. And that's why they separated church and state. Because they saw from Europe, for a thousand years the Catholic Church had dominated the political scene. And they saw that that wasn't working. And that's why I, in a sense, am a little bit concerned when I hear so many Americans say: “America is a Christian nation.”

Parthenia:Oh, I know. Right? Because that's excluding the Muslims, that's excluding literally new age.

Kim Michaels:It's in some cases excluding everybody, but the few hundred members of that particular fundamentalist church who believe they have the only literal interpretation of the Bible. And so, that's why we have all of these tensions between groups of people. And what I think the founding fathers wanted was to realize that as we have universal rights given by a higher authority. There is also a universal humanity in us. And I think that's what Martin Luther King was really tapped into. And Nelson Mandala the same way. It doesn't matter black or white or red or yellow. Beyond all of these outer divisions, there is a universal humanity. And we need to find that. And I think the greatness of America, the greatest potential of America, is that you have people from all over the world put together right here in this melting pot. And we are either going to blow ourselves up, or we're going to tap into that universal humanity and take this to the highest potential.

Parthenia:Yes. Let's take the high rode. That was the vision of the founding fathers.

Kim Michaels:I'm convinced that the founding fathers, at least some of them, had a really profound vision.

Parthenia:You're right. We need a progressive form of democracy, instead of this static one. And we've got a pretty basic Constitution that protects our freedom of speech, our right to privacy, our right to protect ourselves. And as V for Vendetta said, the people should not be afraid of their government. And people are afraid of the government right now. And that's a bad place to be in, which is why things are so volatile right now. … Is my son going to get shot down or just thrown in jail for driving while black?

Kim Michaels:And I think the problem there is that here you have a minority group that's clearly being discriminated against. And the majority are saying: “Oh, well, it doesn't affect me. What can I do about that? They must be doing something to deserve this.” Or whatever. And that's what Martin Luther King was pointing out that an injustice against any group is injustice against the all. And that's what I'm saying with the universal humanity, that you realize that maybe it's this group that's being discriminated against today. But it's going to come around to me at some point. So therefore, I take a stand and stop it right there, before it's knocking on my door.

Parthenia:Exactly. In Frantz Fanon's book, Black Skin, White Masks, where he was talking about what the Germans had done and looking at it in retrospect; because he fought against all of that. When people said: “When they came for the Jews; I did nothing, because I wasn't Jewish. And then, when they came for the Blacks; I did nothing, because I wasn't Black. And when they came for the women; I did nothing, because I wasn't a woman. And then, when they came for me; there was no one to stand for me.”

Kim Michaels:Exactly.

Parthenia:That's a powerful quote.

Kim Michaels:It's very, very powerful.

Parthenia:And that's what you're saying. I never understood that mentality, because I've always been connected to the suffering of humanity. And what can I do in my own little way that can alleviate the suffering? ...

Kim Michaels:I think the key there is to really tap into this with a universal spirituality, where we are looking beyond the outer and even beyond the outer religions. I think we need to start looking at what are the factors in America that are dividing people and putting them against each other.


Kim Michaels:And religion is a very, very big factor; because the formal religion that we have had now since the formation of the Roman Catholic Church in 381 is an exclusivist form of religion that says we have the only true church –

Parthenia:We're going to heaven and you're going to hell.

Kim Michaels:And everybody else is doomed. And what that means is – And this is what we saw in the Inquisition and Crusades. – Then it's OK to kill them.

Parthenia:Absolutely. If you don't belong to our group and if you don't profess our ideology. Off with you head!

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:We're going to torture you first, before we burn you or kill you.

Kim Michaels:For your own good, to save your soul. But look at it. You have a religion based on the ten commandments. Thou shalt not kill. Are there any conditions there? Did God say: “But if these people are really bad and I don't like them, then you can kill them?”

Parthenia:It's like animal farm when they change the ten commandments and the animals said: “But I thought all animals were created equal.” And they said: “Well, all animals are created equal; but some are more equal than others.” (They both laugh.) Don't you love that?

Kim Michaels:Yeah. That's what we say in Denmark, too. And that's what we gotta get beyond where we realize that even religion has been such a divisive issue. And we need to transcend that. I don't really believe we can take our society to the next level until we look at how religion has divided us.

Parthenia:I agree. I want to point out that I don't think that you're saying that people's religion needs to be taken away from them.

Kim Michaels:No! No.

Parthenia:Because I don't think that we're ever – It was never meant that there would be – But there should be one universal form of spirituality, where we tolerate and understand differences.

Kim Michaels:See. I don't envision that there's going to be some new age church that's going to emerge and it's gonna take over like Christianity did at some point and squash all the other religions. I think there's going to be more diversity of religion than ever. But it's just that the different religious groups are not going to feel threatened by each other. They're going to respect each other.

Parthenia:Yes! And what wrong with that? I don't have the right to dictate to someone what they should believe in. I don't want people telling me what to wear. I don't want people telling me how to think. That's why I incarnated in America, because I thought I would have the freedom to be an individual.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. Yeah. No. No. All I'm saying is that I think that for democracy to really work, we need to respect each other and not discriminate against different groups. And that's why we also need to look at religion and say: “We need to stop being divisive, because of religion.”

Parthenia:And this holy than thou. My religion is better than yours and I'm holier than you. ...

Kim Michaels:But see, that's what I'm saying. So often these discussions go into some interpretation of the Bible or specifics about this religion and that religion. But that's what I'm saying. We need to go beyond that. It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of if you have that look, if you're discriminating against other people; you're not truly spiritual.

Parthenia:Thank you.

Kim Michaels:And you're, by the way, undermining the US Constitution and not tying into what the founding fathers meant with the separation of church and state.

Parthenia:And freedom of religion. Who are you to tell anybody anything? And I think that intolerance, which is what we talked about at the conference and the elitism – healing that wound in the American psyche. We're a melting pot. Look at Los Angeles.

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:I love the diversity. I love the different foods. I love the different cultures, the different music, the different people. Because all I see – And I love that about Joseph Campbell. He said people just see the differences in the world religions. And he said: “All I see are the similarities.” I just see that people have different names for different gods and different concepts. But we all really want the same thing. And the ideologies are essentially the same, if you take off the dogma.

Kim Michaels:Yep. But look at Christian fundamentalism where they will always quote what Jesus said: “Go out into all the world and –

Parthenia:And preach the Gospel

Kim Michaels:And make all people my disciples. And he didn't mean make them all members of a particular Christian religion. He meant what he demonstrated, that respect for the universal humanity. Because look how Jesus reached out to all of the groups that were outcasts in Jewish society.

Parthenia:Every one. Absolutely.

Kim Michaels:He said there's nobody who's excluded from the kingdom of God, except those who exclude themselves.

Parthenia:Wow. Thank you for pointing that out. … I honestly think if you have an educated, informed population; you would have more tolerance. You would have less elitism. And I'm talking about real education, where critical thinking is allowed. ...

Kim Michaels:That's again this whole elitism, that there has to be a standard and everything has to be judged by that standard.

Parthenia:Yes, and they hold the standard and if you don't fit that standard, they will do, by any means necessary, get rid of you.

Kim Michaels:Just look at history and look at how many societies have been based on one particular religion or ideology. And how many of those have fallen apart?

Parthenia:Every one!

Kim Michaels:Every single one.

Parthenia:Every one of them.

Kim Michaels:Every single one. And why should we be so arrogant to think that we will be any different.


Kim Michaels:There is simply a force of history that if you close your society; it's going to disintegrate from within.

Parthenia:Thank you. Second law of thermodynamics just kicks in.

Kim Michaels:Yep. Exactly.

Parthenia:You gotta keep evolving. So, America. So, OK. Can we evolve beyond this divisiveness? That's all I'm saying. Rodney King had it right. “Can we all just get along?” (Laughs.) How about that? You're listening to Divine Love Talk. And I am interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels, live and in person here at CRN talk radio, crntalk.com. And check out Kim Michaels at transcendencetoolbox.com. And we're on facebook at Divine Love Talk. You can check me out at doctorparthenia.com.


Parthenia:OK. This went so fast. We’re wrapping this up and I'm just enjoying having Kim Michaels in studio. We don't have that little lag. And the energy and the dynamic is so different when you're facing each other.

Kim Michaels:A lot more fun.

Parthenia:Right? And it's like the difference with your conferences being there in person and feeling the energetic and the dynamic of the information that's flowing through you. Versus, of course, we can always listen to them on the mp3; but it's just a different dynamic. And then, just being able to interact on a human level with all the people there. That's what's so special.

Kim Michaels:And the interaction is actually a very good point. Because what happens when we are divided, like we have been talking about, is that people make assumptions about other groups. “Oh, they are all like that.”


Kim Michaels:And there is no direct interaction. Your ideas are never challenged.

Parthenia:Nothing to contradict it.

Kim Michaels:Exactly. And so that's – when you cut off the interaction, that's when you can't see that universal humanity. And then, you get locked into these mind traps. And I think that's really the only problem in democracies is that people have just been locked into this loop in the mind where we don't see really what the problem is. And it's just like Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tale about the emperor's new clothes. You need somebody to come in and say: “Hey, guys, wake up and look at this.”

Parthenia:The emperor has no clothes on. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:Yeah. The elite has nothing on.

Parthenia:And I've always been that one. I was always that kid. “Hey, wait a minute. How come I'm the only one that sees this?”

Kim Michaels:But how about having thousands of people all across America be the little boy who says: “The elite has nothing on and it's time we take back democracy.”

Parthenia:Oh my god. Yes. Thank you. Yes. So, I'm saying here at Divine Love Talk. Join me in exposing the people that are walking around and pretending that they're something that they're not. Because that's what The Emperor's New Clothes, another message about that is you have people that are just going to bamboozle you.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. They put on a facade and then they make people believe it. And nobody dares to say: – 

Parthenia:To question it.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. “This is a bunch of whatever.”

Parthenia:And so, I say question reality. What I've always told my students when I walk into a classroom: “Don't you believe a word I say. (Kim laughs.) You question everything I say, 'cause I could have it all wrong.” And next week I will come back and go: “Oh, scratch that. OK. I got new information and so now let's take it to the next level.” But it's always evolving. That's that constant self-transcendence that you talk about.

Kim Michaels:Yes. And that's because you're the kind of person, you don't want people to believe in something; you want them to think for themselves.

Parthenia:Exactly! And question.

Kim Michaels:And that is the only thing that is going to make democracy work. When people do that.

Parthenia:Yes. And I've always had open dialogue. It's important for me, the people that are polarized over here – Let's talk about it. Let's hear it. And then, now, listen to the other side. And then, maybe we can come somewhere together in the middle. That's the fun of it all.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. Yeah.

Parthenia:Just kind of waking up to there are other ideas out there.

Kim Michaels:And that's what I mean. When you grasp that universal humanity, you're not going to judge other people without talking to them.


Kim Michaels:And it's really, the problems is when groups of people don't talk to each other; that's where the gun is the only solution.

Parthenia:There you go! Thank you so much, Kim Michaels. This has just been delightful and heart warming. It went too fast. And so, I'm going to actually be able to have Kim Michaels back. I'm going to ask my producer to reschedule the other person so we can have Kim Michaels back next week. Yeah.

Kim Michaels:Looking forward to it.

Parthenia:OK. Thank you. You've been listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I am you host, Dr. Parthenia Grant. Kim Michaels is at transcendencetoolbox.com. And you can find me at doctorparthenia.com. Spell out the word doctor. And we're on facebook at Divine Love Talk. And my personal page is Parthenia Onassis Grant. You can check me out there. I'd love to hear from you guys and get more feedback from you. Send us questions, if you want Kim Michaels to answer questions. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ...



Copyright © 2015 Kim Michaels


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